Below is the first partial rush transcript of tonight’s NBC News – YouTube Democratic debate.
MANDATORY CREDIT: NBC NEWS – YOUTUBE DEBATE
LESTER HOLT:
09:25:50:00 And that’s–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:25:50:00 –care with a special–
09:25:50:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:25:51:00 –and that’s– I will be getting to all that coming up but we’re gonna–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:25:53:00 –Lester, just ten seconds.
LESTER HOLT:
09:25:54:00 –take a break. We need to take–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:25:55:00 Just ten seconds.
LESTER HOLT:
09:25:55:00 –a break. And when we come back–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:25:56:00 All of the thing–
LESTER HOLT:
09:25:58:00 –anger brewing in America.
09:26:10:00 (MUSIC)
09:26:17:00 (BREAK IN TAPE)
09:30:04:00 (MUSIC)
LESTER HOLT:
09:30:08:00 Welcome back to (UNINTEL) turned into another area where there’s been fierce disagreement, that would be health care. Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton, you both mentioned it in your 100 day priorities. Let’s turn to my colleague, Andrea Mitchell, now to lead that questioning.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:30:22:00 Thank you, Lester. Secretary Clinton, Senator Sanders favors what he calls Medicare for all. Now you’ve said that what he is proposing would tear up Obamacare and replace it. Secretary Clinton, is it really fair to say that Bernie Sanders wants to kill Obamacare?
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:30:39:00 Well, Andrea, I am absolutely committed to universal health care. I’ve worked on this for a long time. People may remember that– I took on the health insurance– industry back in the ’90s. And I didn’t quit until we got the children’s health insurance program that insures eight million kids.
09:30:57:00 And I certainly respect Senator Sanders’ intentions. But when you’re talking about health care the details really mattel– matter. And therefore we have been raising questions about the nine bills that he introduced over 20 years– as to how they would work and what would be the impact on people’s health care. He didn’t like that. His campaign– didn’t like it either. And tonight he’s come out with a new health care plan. And again we need to get into the details. But here’s what I believe. The Democratic party in the United States worked since Harry Truman to get the Affordable Care Act passed. We finally have a path to universal health care.
09:31:37:00 We’ve accomplished so much already. I do not want to see the Republicans repeal it. And I don’t wanna see us start over again with a contentious debate. I want us to defend (APPLAUSE) and build on the Affordable Care Act and improve it.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:31:54:00 Okay.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:31:55:00 Senator Sanders?
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:31:57:00 Secretary– Secretary Clinton didn’t answer your question. (LAUGHTER) Because what her campaign was saying Bernie Sanders who has fought for universal health care for my entire life– he wants to end Medicare, end Medicaid, end the children’s health insurance program.
09:32:15:00 That is nonsense. What a Medicare for all program does is finally provide in this country health care for every man, woman and child as a right. Now the truth is that (APPLAUSE) Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman, you know what they believed in? They believed that health care should be available to all of our people. I’m on the committee that wrote the Affordable Care Act. I made the Affordable Care Act along with Jim Clyburn a better pr– piece of legislation. I voted for it.
09:32:46:00 But right now what we have to deal with is the fact that 29 million people still have no health insurance. We are paying the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs, getting ripped off. And here’s the important point, we are spending far more per person on health care than the people of any other country. My proposal, provide health care to all people, get private insurance out of health insurance, lower the cost of health care for middle class families by 5,000 bucks. That’s the vision we need to take.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:33:19:00 Well, Senator Sanders–
09:33:20:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:33:20:00 –if I can– (CHEERING) you know, I– I– I have to say I’m not sure whether we’re talking about the plan you just introduced tonight or we’re talking about the plan you introduced nine times in the Congress. But the fact is (APPLAUSE) we have the Affordable Care Act.
09:33:36:00 That is one of the greatest accomplishments of President Obama, of the Democratic party (CHEERING) and of our country. And we have already seen 19 million Americans get insurance. We have seen the end of pre-existing conditions keeping people from getting insurance. We have seen women no longer paying more for our insurance than men. And we have seen young people up to the age of 26 being able to stay on their parents’ policy.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:34:05:00 Well, that’s–
09:34:06:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:34:04:00 Now there are things we can do to improve it. But to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate I think is the wrong direction.
09:34:18:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:34:19:00 I have to talk about something that’s absolutely–
09:34:20:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:34:21:00 I have–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:34:20:00 No one’s tearing this up. We’re gonna go forward. But what the secretary neglected to mention, not just the 29 million still have no health insurance, that even more are under insured with huge copayments and deductibles. Tell me why we are spending over three times more than the British who guarantee health care to all of their people? 50% more than the French, more than the Canadians.
09:34:44:00 The vision from FDR and Harry Truman was health care for all people as a right in a cost-effective way. We’re not gonna tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it. But we are going to move on top of that to a Medicare–
09:35:01:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:35:00:00 Andrea–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:35:00:00 –for all.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:35:01:00 –Andrea– Andrea–
09:35:02:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:35:02:00 –instead of– (CHEERING) Andrea, I think instead of attacking one another on health care we should be talking about the things that are actually working. In our state we have moved to an all-payer system. With the Affordable Care Act we now have moved all of our acute care hospitals that driver of cost at the center away from fee for service and actually to pay we pay them based on how well they keep patients out of the hospital. How well they keep their patients. That’s the future. We need to build on the Affordable Care Act, do the things that work and reduce costs and increase access.
09:35:36:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:35:36:00 And that’s exactly what we are able to do based on the foundation of the Affordable Care Act. What Governor O’Malley just said is one of the models that we will be looking at to make sure we do get costs down. We do limit a lot of the unnecessary cost that we still have in the system.
09:35:56:00 But with all due respect, to start over again with a whole new debate is something that I think would set us back. The Republicans just voted last week to repeal the Affordable Care Act and thank goodness President Obama vetoed it and saved Obamacare (CHEERING) for the American people.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:17:00 You know–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:18:00 Senator Sanders let me ask you this though–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:20:00 –yeah.
LESTER HOLT:
09:36:20:00 –you talked about Medicare for all. And tonight you’ve released a very detailed plan–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:24:00 Not all that detailed–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:25:00 –just two–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:25:00 –just–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:27:00 –hours before the debate. You did.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:28:00 –well–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:29:00 But let me ask you about Vermont because Vermont– you tried in the state of Vermont. And Vermont walked away from this kind of idea of– of Medicare for all, single payer, because they concluded it require major tax increases–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:40:00 –well, that– you– you might want–
09:36:41:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:42:00 –and by some estimates it would double the budget. If you couldn’t–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:44:00 –Andrea, let me just say this–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:44:00 –sell it in Vermont, Senator–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:46:00 –let me just say that you might–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
09:36:47:00 –how can you sell it to the country?
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:36:48:00 –ask the governor of the state of Vermont why he could not do it. I’m not the governor. I’m the senator from the state of Vermont. But second of all– (APPLAUSE) second of all here is what the real point is. In terms of all of the issues you’ve raised, the good questions you’ve raised, you know what it all comes down to? Do you know why we can’t do what every other country– major country on earth is doing? It’s because we have a campaign finance system that is corrupt.
09:37:15:00 We have super packs. We have the pharmaceutical industry pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into campaign contributions and lobbying and the private (NOISE) insurance companies as well. What this is really about is not the rational way to go forward. It’s Medicare for all. It is whether we have the guts to stand up to the private insurance companies and all of their money and the pharmaceutical industry. That’s what this debate should be about. (CHEERING)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:37:42:00 Well, a– as someone who– as someone who has a– a little bit of experience standing up to the health insurance industry that (CHEERING) spent, you know, many, many millions of dollars attacking me and probably will so again because of what I believe we can do, building on the Affordable Care Act, I think it’s important to point out that there are a lot of reasons we have the health care system we have today.
09:38:09:00 I know how much money influences the political decision making. That’s why I’m for huge campaign finance reform. However, we started a system that had private health insurance. And even during the Affordable Care Act debate there was an opportunity to vote for what was called the public option.
09:38:27:00 In other words, people could buy into Medicare. And even when the Democrats were in care of the Congress we couldn’t get the votes for that. So what I’m saying is really simple, this has been the fight of the Democratic party for decades. We have the Affordable Care Act. Let’s make it work. Let’s take the models that states are doing. We now have driven costs down to the lowest they’ve been in 50 years. Now we’ve gotta get individual costs down. That’s what I’m planning to do.
LESTER HOLT:
09:38:59:00 And that’s time. We’re gonna take a turn now. Secretary Clinton, in his final State of the Union address President Obama said his biggest– regret was his inability to bring the country together. If President Obama couldn’t do it, how will you?
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:39:11:00 Great question.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:39:12:00 Well, I think it’s an important– point the president made in his State of the Union. And here’s what I would say. I will go anywhere to meet with anyone at any time to find common ground. That’s what I did as a first lady when I worked with both Democrats and Republicans to get the children’s health insurance program.
09:39:27:00 When I worked with (UNINTEL) one of the most– partisan of Republicans to reform the adoption and foster care system, what I did working in the Senate where I crossed the aisle often. Working even with the senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham, to get tri-care for national guardsmen and women. And it’s what I did as secretary of state on numerous compassions. And most particularly rounding up 2/3 votes in order to pass a treaty that lowered the nuclear weapons in both Russia and the United States. So I know it’s hard. But I also know you’ve gotta work at it every single day.
09:40:07:00 I look out here I see a lot of my friends from the Congress. And I know that they work at it every single day because maybe you can only find a little sliver of common ground to cooperate with somebody from the other party. But who knows? If you’re successful there maybe you can build even more–
LESTER HOLT:
09:40:24:00 And that’s time.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:40:25:00 –that’s what I will do.
LESTER HOLT:
09:40:25:00 Senator Sanders response? (CHEERING)
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:40:32:00 A couple of years ago when we understood that veterans were not getting the quality care they needed in a timely manner I worked with folks like John McCain and others to pass the most comprehensive veterans’ health care legislation in modern history.
09:40:47:00 But let me rephrase your question because I think if– in all due respect, your question, in all due respect, (LAUGHTER) you’re missing the main point. And the main point in the Congress, it’s not that Republicans and Democrats hate each other. That’s a mythology from the media. The real issue is that Congress is owned by big money and refuses to do what the American people want them to do. (CHEERING) The real issue is that on– the real issue is that in area after area, raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, the American people want it. Rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, creating le– 13 million jobs, the American people want it. Pay equity for women, the American people want it. Demanding that the wealthy start paying their fair share of taxes, the American people–
LESTER HOLT:
09:41:39:00 That’s–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:41:40:00 –want it.
LESTER HOLT:
09:41:41:00 –that’s time. But let me–
09:41:41:00 (OVERTALK)
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:41:42:00 We have gotta make Congress respond to the needs of the people, not to–
09:41:47:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:41:45:00 Senator Sanders, let me continue. You call yourself a (CHEERING) Democratic socialist.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:41:51:00 I do.
LESTER HOLT:
09:41:51:00 And throughout your career in politics you’ve been (LAUGHTER) critical of the Democratic party. Even saying in a book you wrote, quote “There wasn’t a hell of a big difference between the two major parties.” How will you when a general–
09:42:00:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:42:01:00 –how will you win a general election labeling yourself a Democratic socialist?
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:42:05:00 –because when I believe– what I was just saying. The Democratic party needs major reform. To those of you in South Carolina, you know what, in Mississippi, we need a 50 state strategy so that people (APPLAUSE) in South Carolina and Mississippi can get the resources that they need instead of being dependent on super packs. What we need is to be dependent on small, individual campaign contributors. We need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families and low-income people, not wealthy campaign contributors.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:42:42:00 Yeah, but senator, you can–
09:42:43:00 (OVERTALK)
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:42:44:00 –we need to expand– we need to expand what the input into the Democratic party. I am very proud that in this campaign we have seen an enormous amount of excitement from young people, from working people. We have received more individual contributions than any candidate in the history of this country up to this point. (CHEERING)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:43:02:00 Yeah, but senator, you never came–
09:43:05:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:43:06:00 –to campaign for Vincent Sheheen when he was running for governor. In fact, neither of you came to campaign for Vincent Sheheen when he was running for governor. We can talk all we want about wanting (CLAPPING) to build a stronger Democratic party.
09:43:14:00 But, Lester, the question you answered, there’s no laughing matter. The most recurring question I get when I stand on the chair all across (UNINTEL) and talk with my neighbors is, “How are you going to heal the divisions and the wounds in our country?”
09:43:29:00 This is the biggest challenge we face as a people. All my life I brought people together over– over deep divides and– and very old wounds. And that’s what we need now in a new leader. We cannot keep s– talking past each other, declaring all Republicans our enemies or the war is all about being against millionaires or billionaires or it’s all against American Muslims or all against immigrants. Look, it’s Frederick Douglas said, “We are one. Our cause is one. And we must help each other if we’re going to succeed–”
LESTER HOLT:
09:43:53:00 And that is– that is–
09:43:55:00 (OVERTALK)
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:43:56:00 –and that– (CHEERING)
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:43:56:00 And I respectfully disagree–
LESTER HOLT:
09:43:57:00 –Secretary Clinton, my next question is for you.
09:44:00:00 (OVERTALK)
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:43:59:00 I respectfully disagree with– with my c– my friend over here. And that is you are right. All of us have denounced Trump, attempt to divide this country, the anti-Latino rhetoric, the racist rhetoric, the anti-Muslim rhetoric. But where I disagree with you, Governor O’Malley is I do believe we have to deal with the fundamental issues of a handful of billionaires–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:44:23:00 I agree with that.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:44:25:00 –who control the economic and political life of this country.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:44:27:00 I agree.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:44:28:00 Nothing real will– get– happen unless we have a political revolution–
LESTER HOLT:
09:44:31:00 And– and–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:44:32:00 –where millions of people–
LESTER HOLT:
09:44:33:00 –and we’re gonna–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:44:33:00 –finally stand up.
LESTER HOLT:
09:44:36:00 –we’re gonna get into that coming up. But Secretary Clinton, (APPLAUSE) here’s another question from YouTube. It’s from a young video blogger who has over five million subscribers. He has a question about the importance of younger voters.
CONNOR FRANTA:
09:44:45:00 Hi, I’m Connor Franta. I’m 23 and my audience is around the same age. Getting my generation’s vote should be a priority for any presidential candidate. Now I know Senator Sanders is pretty popular among my peers. But what I wanna know is how are all of you planning on engaging us further in this election?
LESTER HOLT:
09:45:03:00 Secretary Clinton.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:45:03:00 Well, thanks for the question. And– congratulations on five million viewers on YouTube. That’s quite an accomplishment. Look, this election is mostly about the future. And therefore it is of greatest urgency for young people.
09:45:21:00 I’ve laid out my ideas about what we can do to make college affordable, how we can help people pay off their student debts and save thousands of dollars, how we can create more good jobs. Because a lot of the young people that I talk with are pretty disappointed about the economic prospects they feel they’re facing. So making community college free, making it possible to attend a public college or university with debt-free tuition.
09:45:49:00 Looking for ways to protect our rights, especially from the concerted Republican assault on voting rights, on women’s rights, on gay rights, on civil rights, on workers’ rights. And I know how much young people value their independence, their autonomy and their rights. So I think this is an election where we have to pull young people and older people together to have a strategy about how we’re going to encourage even more Americans to vote. Because it is absolutely clear–
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:22:00 That– that–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:46:24:00 –to me that turning–
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:24:00 –that’s time but–
09:46:26:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:46:25:00 –over our White House to the Republicans–
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:27:00 Secretary–
09:46:26:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:46:27:00 –would be bad for everybody, especially young people.
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:31:00 –a quick follow-up, a 30-second follow-up, (APPLAUSE) why is Senator Sanders beating you two to one among younger voters?
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:46:36:00 I– I– look, I have the greatest respect for Senator Sanders and– for his supporters. And I’m gonna keep working as hard as I can– to reach as many people of all ages– about what I will do, what the experience and the ideas that I have that I will bring to the White House. And I hope to have their support when I’m the Democratic nominee.
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:56:00 All right, we’re gonna–
09:46:55:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:46:56:00 –we’re gonna take a break. When we come back, (CHEERING) big bank, big business and big differences among the three candidates on the American economy. We’ll be right back.
09:47:08:00 (MUSIC)
LESTER HOLT:
09:51:18:00 Welcome back from Charleston. Let’s turn now to the economy. Senator Sanders, you released a tough new ad last week in which without mentioning Secretary Clinton by name, you talk about two Democratic vision for regulating Wall Street. Quote, “One says it’s okay to take millions from big banks and tell them what to do. My plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes, and make them pay their fair share.” What do you see as the difference between what you would do about the banks and what Secretary Clinton would do?
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:51:47:00 Well, the first difference is, I don’t take money from big banks. I don’t get personal speaking fees from Goldman Sachs. What I would do– (APPLAUSE) what I would do is understand that when you have three out of the four largest banks today bigger than they were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail, when you have the six largest financial institutions having assets of 60% of the G.D.P. of America, it is very clear to me what you have to do.
09:52:22:00 You gotta bring back the 21st century Glass-Steagall legislation and you gotta break up these huge financial institutions. They have too much economic power and they have too much financial power over our entire economy. If Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, the old Republican trust buster, what he would say is, “These guys are too powerful. Break them up.” I believe that’s what the American people want to see. That’s my view. (APPLAUSE)
LESTER HOLT:
09:52:52:00 Secretary Clinton, help the voter understand the daylight between the two of you here.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:52:57:00 Well, there’s no daylight on the basic– premise that there should be no bank too big to fail and no individual too powerful to jail. We agree on that. But where we disagree is the comments that Senator Sanders has made that don’t just affect me. I can take that. But he’s criticized President Obama for taking donations from Wall Street.
09:53:24:00 And President Obama has led our country out of the great recession. Senator Sanders called him weak, disappointing. He even, in 2011, publicly sought someone to run in a primary against President Obama. Now, I personally believe that President Obama’s work to push through the Dodd-Frank– (AUDIENCE REACTION) the Dodd-Frank bill and then to sign it was one of the most important regulatory schemes we’ve had since the 1930s. So I’m gonna defend (APPLAUSE) Dodd-Frank and I’m gonna defend President Obama for taking on Wall Street, (CHEERING) taking on the financial industry, and getting results.
LESTER HOLT:
09:54:09:00 Senator Sanders, your response–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:54:09:00 Okay, first of all, set the record right. In 2006 when I ran for the Senate, Senator Barack Obama was kids enough to campaign for me. 2008, I did my best to see that he was elected. And in 2012, I worked as hard as I could to see that he was reelected. You know, I– our friends, we work together on many issues, we have some differences of opinion.
09:54:32:00 But here is the issue. Secretary touched on it. Can you really reform Wall Street when they are spending millions and millions of dollars on campaign contributions and when they are providing speaker fees to individuals? So it’s easy to say, “Well, I’m gonna do this and do that.” But I have doubts when people receive huge amounts of money from Wall Street. I am very proud. I do not have a super PAC. I do not want Wall Street’s money. I’ll rely on the middle class and working families for my campaign contributions–
09:55:09:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:55:10:00 –that’s time. Governor O’Malley, I– I have a question for you– (APPLAUSE)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:55:11:00 Well, you know, I think that– I think then, if Senator Sanders followed up on this–
LESTER HOLT:
09:55:15:00 First, 30-second response.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:55:17:00 Your– your profusion of comments about your feelings towards President Obama– are a little strange, given what you said about him in 2011. But look, I have a plan that most commentators have said is tougher more effective, and more comprehensive.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:55:35:00 That’s not true.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:55:36:00 It builds on the Dodd-Frank– (AUDIENCE REACTION) yes it is. It builds on the Dodd-Frank regulatory–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:55:41:00 It’s just not true.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:55:42:00 –schemes. But it goes much further.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:55:44:00 Oh come on.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:55:45:00 Because both the governor and the senator have focused only on the big banks. Lehman Brothers, AIG, the shadow banking sector, were as big a problem in what caused the Great Recession. I go after them, and I can tell you that the hedge fund billionaires who are running ads against me right now, and Karl Rove, who started running an ad against me right now, funded by money from the financial services sector, sure think I’m the one they don’t want to be up against–
LESTER HOLT:
09:56:14:00 Governor– Governor O’Malley.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:56:15:00 Yeah, thank you. (CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) Yeah, Le– Lester, what Secretary Clinton just said is actually not true. What– (APPLAUSE) I have put forward a plan that would actually put cops back on the beat of Wall Street. I have put forward a plan that was heralded as very comprehensive and realistic.
09:56:36:00 Look, if– if a bank robber robs a bank, and all you do is slap ’em on the wrist, he’s just gonna keep robbing banks again. The same thing is true with people in suits. Secretary Clinton, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. But for you to say there’s no daylight on this between the three of us, is also not true. I support reinstituting a modern version of Glass-Steagall that would include going after the shadow banks, requiring capital requirements that would force them to– no longer put us on the hook for these sorts of things.
09:57:05:00 In prior debates, I’ve heard you even bring up– I mean, fir– now you p– bring up President Obama here in South Carolina, in defense of the fact of your cozy relationship with Wall Street. In an earlier debate, I heard you bring up even the 911, 9/11 victims to defend it. The truth of the matter is, Secretary Clinton, you did not go as far in reining in Wall Street as I would. And the fact of the matter is, the people of America deserve to have a president that’s on their side, protecting the main street economy from excesses on Wall Street and–
09:57:33:00 (OVERTALK)
LESTER HOLT:
09:57:34:00 Secretary Clinton, your 30-second response.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:57:35:00 Yes, well– (CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) first of all– first of all, Paul Krugman, Barney Frank, others, have all endorsed my plan. Secondly, we have Dodd-Frank. It gives us the authority already to break up big banks that pose–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:57:52:00 And we’ve never used it.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:57:53:00 –that pose a risk to the financial sector. I wanna go further and add to that. And, you know, Governor, you have raised money on Wall Street. You raised a lotta money on Wall Street when you were the head of the Democrat Governor’s Association. And you were–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:58:09:00 Yeah, but I haven’t gotten a penny this year. Would somebody please go up–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:11:00 Well–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:58:12:00 –to MartinOMalley.com– (CHEERING) go into MartinOMalley.com, send me your checks. They’re not getting– zero.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:19:00 Well, the– yeah, well–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:58:20:00 So what do you–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:20:00 So– but the point is that if– if we’re going to be–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:58:22:00 The point being–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:22:00 –serious about this, and not just try to score political points–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:26:00 Right.
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:27:00 –we should know what’s in Dodd-Frank.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:28:00 Right, let’s ta–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:29:00 And what’s in Dodd-Frank already gives the president–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:30:00 Oh, let’s not score political points–
09:58:30:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:32:00 –the authority to give regulators–
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:32:00 Let me give you an example of how–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:58:34:00 –to make those decisions.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:35:00 –corrupt– (CHEERING) how corrupt the system is. (APPLAUSE) Goldman Sachs recently fined $5 billion. Goldman Sachs has given this country two secretaries of Treasury, one on the Republicans, one on the Democrats.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:58:53:00 Yeah.
BERNIE SANDERS:
09:58:54:00 The leader of Goldman Sachs is a billionaire who comes to congress and tells us we should cut social security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Secretary Clinton, and you’re not the only one, so I don’t mean to just point the finger at you. You’ve received over $600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year. I find it very strange that a major financial institution that pays $5 billion in fines for breaking the law, not one of their executives is prosecuted while kids who smoke marijuana (CHEERING) get a jail sentence.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
09:59:32:00 Andrea–
HILLARY CLINTON:
09:59:33:00 Well, it’s– l– the last point on this is Senator Sanders, you’re the only one on this stage that voted to deregulate the financial market in 2000, to take the cops off the street, to use Governor O’Malley’s phrase, to make the S.E.C. and the communities– the Commodities– Futures Trading Commission, no longer able to regulate swaps and derivatives, which were one of the main cause of the collapse in ’08. So there’s plenty–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:00:05:00 If you want to– (APPLAUSE)
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:00:06:00 –there’s plenty of problems that we all have to face together. And I– the final thing I would say, we’re at least having a feverish debate about reining in Wall Street–
LESTER HOLT:
10:00:15:00 Senator Sanders–
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:00:15:00 –the Republicans wanna give them–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:00:16:00 Okay.
10:00:17:00 (OVERTALK)
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:00:17:00 –more power and repeal–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:00:18:00 Any–
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:00:19:00 –Dodd-Frank. That’s what we need to stop–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:00:21:00 Anyone who wants to check (APPLAUSE) my record– (CHEERING) anyone who wants to check my record in taking on Wall Street, in fighting against the deregulation of Wall Street, when Wall Street put billions of dollars in lobbying, in campaign contributions, to get the government off their backs, they got the government off their backs. Turns out that they were crooks, and they destroyed our economy. I think it’s time to put the government back on their backs.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:00:56:00 Senator Sanders– (APPLAUSE) Senator Sanders, we’ve talked a lot about things you want to do. You want free education for everyone, you want the federal minimum wage–
10:01:05:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:01:06:00 –raised to $15 an hour, (LAUGHTER) you want to expand social security benefits–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:01:09:00 Yeah, right.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:01:11:00 You’re very specific about what you want. But let’s talk about how to pay for all this–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:01:14:00 Good.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:01:15:00 You have now said that you would raise taxes today, two hours or so ago, you said you would raise taxes to pay for your healthcare plan. You haven’t been specific about how to pay for the other things.
10:01:25:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:01:25:00 Would you tell us tonight?
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:01:26:00 Good. You’re right. I want to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, create 13 million jobs. We do that by doing away with the absurd loopholes that now allows major profitable corporations to stash their money in the Cayman Islands and not in some years pay a nickel in taxes. Yes, I do. I plead guilty. I want every kid in this c– country, who has the ability, to be able to go to a public college or university tuition-free.
10:01:55:00 And by the way, I want to substantially lower student debt interest rates in this country as well. How do I pay for it? (APPLAUSE) I pay for it through a (UNINTEL) tax on Wall Street speculation. This country and the middle class bailed out Wall Street. Now it is Wall Street’s time to help the middle class. In fact–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
10:02:15:00 Andrea–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:02:15:00 –we have documented, (APPLAUSE) unlike Secretary Clinton, I have documented exactly how I would pay for our ambitious agenda.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
10:02:24:00 Andrea, I’m the only person on this stage–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:02:24:00 Secretary– secretary Clinton, he mentioned–
10:02:26:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:02:26:00 –so Secretary Clinton, you want to respond?
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:02:28:00 Well, I have– actually documented– every way that I’m going to pay for what I’m doing– because I think the American public deserves to know. And you can go to my website and actually see that. But there are serious questions about how we’re going to pay for what we want to see our country do.
10:02:48:00 And I’m the only candidate standing here tonight who has said I will not raise taxes on the middle class. I want to raise incomes, not taxes. And I’m gonna do everything I can to make sure that the wealthy pay for debt-free tuition, for childcare, for paid family leave, to help us bring down student debt, we’re going to refinance that student debt, saving kids thousands of dollars. Yeah, and that will also come out of some of the pockets of–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:03:19:00 Okay–
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:03:19:00 –people in the financial services industry–
10:03:20:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:03:21:00 –but Senator Sanders, let me–
HILLARY CLINTON:
10:03:22:00 But I will tell you exactly how I pay for everything I propose–
10:03:24:00 (OVERTALK)
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:03:27:00 Here is the major point–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:03:27:00 Senator Sanders, let me ask you a question about taxes–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:03:29:00 Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:03:29:00 –because the most (UNINTEL) political (LAUGHTER) issue in–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:03:32:00 I got you.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:03:33:00 –in the last month was taxes. Now, in your healthcare plan, the plan you released tonight, you would not only raise taxes on the wealthy, the details you released indicate you would raise taxes on the middle class also. Is that correct?
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:03:45:00 What is correct, and I am disappointed that Secretary Clinton’s campaign has made this criticism. It’s a Republican criticism. Secretary Clinton does know a lot about healthcare. And she understands, I believe, that a Medicaid-for-all-single-payer program, will substantially lower the cost of healthcare for middle class families.
10:04:08:00 So what we have got to acknowledge, and I hope the secretary does, is we are doing away with private health insurance premiums. So instead of paying $10,000 to Blue Cross or Blue Shield, yes, some middle class families would be paying slightly more in taxes. But the result would be that that middle class family would be saving some $5,000 in healthcare costs. A little bit more in taxes, do away with private health insurance premiums. It’s a pretty good deal. (APPLAUSE)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:04:39:00 Senator–
10:04:39:00 (OVERTALK)
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:04:40:00 –Senator, let me just follow up on that, because–
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:04:41:00 Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
10:04:42:00 –on Meet the Press, on December 20th, you said that you would only raise taxes on the middle class to pay for family leave. And having said that, now you say you’re gonna raise middle class taxes to pay for healthcare as well. Is that breaking your word?
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:04:55:00 No. It is not breaking my word. When you are– it’s one thing to say, “I’m raising taxes.” It’s another thing to say that we are doing away with private health insurance premiums. So if I save you $10,000 in private health insurance, and you pay a little bit more in taxes in total, there are huge savings in what your family is spending.
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
10:05:17:00 Senator, I’m the only person on this stage that’s actually balanced a budget every year for 15 years.
BERNIE SANDERS:
10:05:22:00 I was mayor for eight years, I did that as well–
MARTIN O’MALLEY:
10:05:24:00 Okay, so that was eight years. (LAUGHTER) Yeah. And Senator, but I actually did it during a budget downtime, during a recession. And– and Andrea– I had to make more cuts than any governor in the state of Maryland. But we invested more in infrastructure, more in transportation. We made our public schools number one in America five years in a w– row. And went four years in a row without a penny’s increase to college tuition.
10:05:46:00 The things that we need to do in our country, like debt-free college in the next five years, like making univer– like making national service a universal operation in order to cut youth employment in half in the next three years, all of these things can be done if we eliminate one entitlement we can no longer afford as a nation.
10:06:04:00 And that is the entitlement that the super wealthy among us, those making more than a million dollars, feel that they are entitled to paying a much, much lower marginal tax rate than what’s usual for the better part of these 80 years. And if we tax– earnings from investments on money, namely capital gains at the same rate that we tax earnings from sweat and hard work and toil, we can make the investments we need to make to make our country better. (CHEERING)
LESTER HOLT:
10:06:28:00 We’ve got a lot of ground to cover here.
